Wolfgang613 Report This Comment
Date: October 10, 2009 09:58PM

So what is wrong with the picture?

To start with Adam and Eve chose to sin. We are not bound by there actions but we fall short and sin on our own. (Original Sin is a lie)

Yes Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit (God) so that He could experience life as one of us. However, there is some controversy over the word "virgin" in the Gospels. It could just mean young woman not necessary never having sex, so was it the Holy Spirit or Joseph?

Jesus (God) did not kill himself. We killed a perfectly innocent man who rose from the dead on the third day and broke the bonds of sin and death.

We have the freedom to choose to fallow God or not. If we choose to all is gained. If we don't we will be OWNED.

fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: October 10, 2009 10:37PM

i saw a bigfoot once.

Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 01:02AM

Maybe you can help me with this one wolfie ..... how was mankind propagated past Adam and Eve's 2 sons

Christians seem not to be cognizant of it but the whole "Christ" thing in Christianity is really just a retelling of the same story that had already been told multiple times before he was born.

You cats and your adult version imaginary friends are a hoot

dv8 Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 01:39AM

fossil_digger

so when you looked at bigfoot, you started ? no wonder bigfoot likes to stay away from humans

duane Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 02:23AM

No insults from me. I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins. Have a nice day.

The Dude Abides Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 03:52AM

When phrased that way, it does raise some questions.

Personally, I just like Jesus' "Be Kind. Be Forgiving. Be." kinda gospel. I really, really am down with that.

I just can't find any logic, sense, or justice that would support all the rest.

But that "ta-dah" really cracked me up. Was like "Buddy Jesus" ala Dogma viz Kevin Smith.

fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 04:30AM

Wolfgang613 Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 06:51AM

Quote
Mrkim
Maybe you can help me with this one wolfie ..... how was mankind propagated past Adam and Eve's 2 sons

I see the early parts of the Old Testament to be more symbolic then literal. The creation story and Adam and Eve especially. I believe that God used the big bang and evolution to create everything. Why would God make all the laws of nature and never use them? So to answer your question, I see Adam and Eve as the cross-over point were we became self aware cognitive humans, and thus able to do great acts of good and evil. This would mean there were more than just two people to populate the world.

Quote
Mrkim
Christians seem not to be cognizant of it but the whole "Christ" thing in Christianity is really just a retelling of the same story that had already been told multiple times before he was born.

Names, Places, and Dates please. There were some before Jesus who claimed to be the Messiah, but were found to be faults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2009 07:02AM by Wolfgang613.

Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 07:08AM

Woo Hoo .... symbolism, alliteration, allegory and individual interpretation of the supposed gospel of "your lord", my my aren't we the ever imaginative one. Must be really a satisfying enterprise to take the literal words from the bible and manipulate them to suit your personal position. I can tell by your words you even seem validated and smarmy in having done so .... comme interessant.

Since you didn't really do anything more than talk circles around the extremely direct question I posed I'd say you seem a fine candidate for some sort of political office.

One potential problem I see though is your having to choose either the long held "god" figure or your newest favorite messiah replacement Big O.

Decisions, decisions

Here ya go. Rather than bore you and the other members of the short attention span theater who seem incapable of being able to read more than a sentence or 2 without feeling mentally challenged and whining about it here's a link that explains it better than I could anyway [video.google.com]#.

Though I'm not a big fan of the 2nd 1/2 of the show the parts regarding religion (all religions)/power/monetary manipulation etc. are certainly ones I'd be willing to go toe to toe with anytime you or any of the other god schmookers care to go a few rounds





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2009 07:19AM by Mrkim.

jgoins Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 11:47AM

I also believe the Jesus died for our sins and that is all that is needed to gain your place in heaven.

jo nobody Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 03:00PM

>> I also believe the Jesus died for our sins and that is all that is needed to gain your place in heaven.

Keep saying it. Keep saying it. Keep saying it. Like a mantra. Reassure yourself. Reinforce yourself. It's the easiest thing in the world. The easiest religion. The easiest answer to all doubts, fears, and questions. Nothing in this world matters, not your guilt or your sins or human suffering. Babies born to live a few years then die slowly of diarhea. (Thats Gods' plan for them.) Its so easy. Just believe, just join, just say you are a member, and it is all wiped away and you can keep on going another day. Jesus actually said to a bad man "Go and do good to redeeem your afterlife." But nobody remembers that part.......

Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 05:16PM

I personally can't abide the idea that anyone past or present would ever need to die for my sins as it seems not only illogical but furthermore blatantly nonsensical. Everyones sins are their own and the atonement exists in the here and now as well as how their lives will be reviewed and remembered once they're gone. How one is viewed once they're gone is the closest thing to an afterlife I can envision.

The atheistsic concept of secular humanism (the position I embrace) [en.wikipedia.org] seems much more like one that could unify all people for everyones benefit and much more productively move mankind forward than any one religion ever could even if it were to be universally embraced as it is based on pure logic and righteous self conduct in how we relate and interrelate to and with others without basis of any principles relating to any theology or ideology built upon a basis of faith.

I will also say I disagree with interpreting secular humanism as a theology or religion as it's basis is actually founded upon the idea that no such philosophy based on "faith" is reasonable eventhough the judicial systems legally recognizes it as a religion. This position was tested and moved into existence by secular humanist groups wanting to achieve tax free status/exemptions for their organizations and is actually simply manipulating the laws in doing so as the members will still tell you they deny their philosophy to be a religion at all since it's not based on "faith"

Wolfgang613 Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 10:08PM

Quote
Mrkim
Woo Hoo .... symbolism, alliteration, allegory and individual interpretation of the supposed gospel of "your lord", my my aren't we the ever imaginative one. Must be really a satisfying enterprise to take the literal words from the bible and manipulate them to suit your personal position. I can tell by your words you even seem validated and smarmy in having done so .... comme interessant.

Since you didn't really do anything more than talk circles around the extremely direct question I posed I'd say you seem a fine candidate for some sort of political office.

One potential problem I see though is your having to choose either the long held "god" figure or your newest favorite messiah replacement Big O.

Decisions, decisions

Here ya go. Rather than bore you and the other members of the short attention span theater who seem incapable of being able to read more than a sentence or 2 without feeling mentally challenged and whining about it here's a link that explains it better than I could anyway [video.google.com]#.

Though I'm not a big fan of the 2nd 1/2 of the show the parts regarding religion (all religions)/power/monetary manipulation etc. are certainly ones I'd be willing to go toe to toe with anytime you or any of the other god schmookers care to go a few rounds

Yes there is symbolism in the Bible, but it is not all symbolic, and I said nothing about the Gospels just the earlier parts of the Old Testament. And yes the Bible is to be interpreted by the individual. That is, we all have a personal relationship with God and his written word will mean something personal to each person who reads it. You can not take the Bible and read it as a scientific text; it is a religious text. Don't get the two confused. This can be difficult for some to understand.

By the way, I am not conflicted by my beliefs. I see science as the study of God's creation and not in conflict with it, and I am not alone. There are meny people who believe this, but you don't hear much about them. It makes much better press to have a conflict than coporation.

I was wondering if you would bring up The Movie Zeitgeist. It makes very extraordinary claims without giving extraordinary evidence to back it up. Instead they give half truths and lies. Here is a good link to someone who took the time to thoroughly check out the movie: Conspiracy Science.

Jononet Report This Comment
Date: October 11, 2009 11:00PM

The bible is not Gods words....... Full Stop. It is a collection of books writen by men combined into one tombe at the Council of Nicea. Many books which should have been included were not and many, if not all, of those included were altered, by men to send a message they wanted to give.

Is there a God? I don't know, but Einstein had a notion (an idea), if God (or some omnicent being) made all things, then he/she/they would have made it (our environment) simple enough so that one day man (or some other being) would be able to understand it. Probably with M Theory, a progession from String Theory, we are getting there, we can now prove the existance of time prior to the big bang. and prove the existence of other universes and the way gravity leaks between those universes being the reason gravity is so relatively weak.

The whole question of what is right or wrong, good or bad is a moral one. I have no doubt Wolfgang613 is a good person as he believes being a good person is a good thing that attains good rewards, however, it can also be argued that MrKim is just as good a person because he is a good person because he wants to be (more often than not I should probably add, like us all), and not just because he fears the wrath of some omnipitent being. Who was it that said God is an imaginary friend for adults?
'
We are in territory here that can NEVER be resolved within ours or our childrens life span, that said we are probably all 'in the right' if we stay on the side of logic and do not start to wipe out whole races of people just because we wish to thrust our beliefs onto others as has happened so often in the past. And that is just on our planet, what about how often that has happened in our universe on other planets or even other universes on countless other planets.

That said I need a fucking drink now.

jgoins Report This Comment
Date: October 12, 2009 11:37AM

What does it matter how someone is remembered after they die? My wife's first husband was an evil wife beater and now that he is dead he is not remembered well so what effect does it have on him? Unless there is some sort of afterlife then it would not matter how someone is remembered after one dies. when we die the memory of the living no longer matters unless there is God. If there were no God then death would only mean worm food and nothing more.